vaultofthearchonfandomcom-20200214-history
118082-drop-4-in-december
Content ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- The topic is probably far more in the lines of complaining just to complain. Wildstar didn't turn out the way the OP hoped, so he/she is going to sit here complain until the game is eventually dead in over a decade. It's sad, as it could give Carbine the wrong impression. The truth is the game is doing quite well, and most people I meet in the game are very happy to be there. The complainers are a minority, but they refuse to admit it. Thus we end up with threads like this, there the OP think they actually matter in the big picture. But hey, let's stink up the forum rather than the game, ok? :) | |} ---- The same bugs on the PTR are now on Live. Was the process just a copy and paste job? What's the point of waiting another 90 days for that. Just copy and paste whatever they've got each month and let's roll. Us suckers have kept pushing through all the bugs thus far, we'll cop it fine. OP actually tries to theorycraft and play the game in a #hardcore manner as well. He just gets very frustrated that the game is not developed with a #hardcore attention to detail. The OP is still here playing and he may be a minority but that's only because he is the last remaining Wildstar player from the 30 raiders he initially attuned with... OP is the 3.33%. He didn't create that retention rate, he did everything he could to keep those friends playing. | |} ---- ---- You do know hashtags are for twitter? And this is a forum? Anyway, the OP say we might as well get the next content addon in December, as it will be crap no matter how long we have to wawit for it. That sounds like complaining just to complain. And seriously, he calls himself Grumpydog. Do you really try to take his complaining serious? Heh, only now realized I was quoting the OP. Whoopsie! :p | |} ---- Implicit in this statement is the idea that they're not fixing bugs right now, but will only do so as part of the next drop. The hotfixes they have been rolling out since the drop went live suggest that this is not the case. | |} ---- ---- 1. Propably 2. Yes, this is a forum. | |} ---- ---- ---- Kind of makes you wish they could put up polls for these kinds of things. Just to have Carbine put up a poll that says: HELLO! PLEASE VOTE HERE! Would you rather: -Have a monthly development cycle, but more bugs which will need to be hotfixed out after the drop -Have a bi-monthly development cycle -Have a quarterly development cycle, which will iron everything down to a few easily hotfixed issues Which of these issues is most important for you to see improvements to in the immediate future? (pick 3) -PVE queue times -Solo content -PVP queue times -World PVP/PVE content -UI/graphical -Bugs/mechanical systems -Housing content -Crafting systems -Character customization -Game services -Optimization/Performance And just do a list of a bunch of questions so we can not only click around on things, but see what the results are. It's better than getting your feedback from random forum posts and an exit survey. Why not survey the actual players who are here and see what we want right now in the next patch? Give us a hand in the development process and use the rest of the thread for us to talk about things we'd like to see and the devs can drop in and talk about what is and is not possible, why, and how long all these things might take. At least then, we'd know exactly where they were getting their feedback, what for, and they could tailor their development and development cycle to the players. | |} ---- Vic, you just made me squee. Thanks for that, it's been too long. :lol: Seek feedback? In some standardized format? Maybe even do something really insane like add a link at the entry window for the game client, to bring in the larger community instead of just the forum regulars? Crazy talk! Crazy, I tell you! Do you not know that the whole point of attunement and PvP rating is to separate those whose opinions matter from those whose opinions don't matter? :P | |} ---- Well, right now, they're getting the things they need to fix from the people who are leaving and the people who are screaming. Volume of voice, rather than volume of players, determines what Carbine's been doing. At least if they did a poll, Carbine could point to the poll and say, "Look, I know you wanted it another way, but look at this poll! This is what people thought was important for this drop." | |} ---- | |} ---- Sorry, was the point of your quote to remind us how unrealistic and silly it was when they said it? Or something else? | |} ---- Psssst. I may be agreeing with you for once. Don't tell anyone. :ph34r: | |} ---- :lol: You're allowed. I do give a breadth of feedback on the forums. | |} ---- With 1 drop Donatelli made everything he said and promised a big waste of time. Kind of amusing. They only had forever to fix drop 3. They could have released it bit by bit and let the actual content (Defile + OMNIcore-1) come with "Drop 3". | |} ---- I re-read the quote. Unless you'd call this drop buggy, I don't see anything in that quote that Carbine didn't do. I mean, I understand people who weren't around for the launch of other, really buggy MMORPGs (some of which are now the most successful games in the genre), but to call this launch as buggy or buggier than something like, say, Sabotage? That doesn't make any sense, it absolutely isn't. Those 100 pages of bugs they fixed for drop 3 weren't from drop 3, they came from launch, drop 1, and drop 2. You could also say it wasn't worth the time they held the content back, that's fine, but that quote is perfectly valid. It looks like they had maybe 2-3 real major issues, just a few minor ones, and that's a lot better than what the game was stacking up by Sabotage. I wouldn't in any way call this patch buggy; I'd be a hypocrite if I did, considering the kinds of things people were talking about after the last two drops. Worth it or not, that's up for debate; I don't really mind one way or the other. But the extra time did sort out a lot of the major bugs of the variety that piled on in the last two. | |} ---- Soooo... it didn't seem unrealistic and silly to you when they said it but now it does? Really? Huh. As for how long they really had, they did have a long time, I'll agree. But they didn't have forever. I cannot help but notice that this release is timed to coincide with other world events that may have been relevant to how much time they actually had to release. <_< I think "buggy" is a fair assessment. They're working on those bugs, so I'm not going to rage about it, but I'm not going to pretend it was a drop with a smooth-as-silk take-off. | |} ---- Is it? Every single WoW content drop I was around for had worse than random cosmetic issues. I hardly thought WoW was buggy, and their content patches didn't come close to the changes they made in this drop. I just don't think I could call it buggy when we're complaining about the gadget slot not looking as though it has something in it. That would have been barely notable if it had been an issue in Sabotage. Maybe I'm just calloused from well over a decade of MMORPG launches, but this drop wasn't buggy by any objective definition unless "buggy" means "contains bugs". And everything contains bugs. | |} ---- The problem with Drop 3 isn't the quantity of bugs, it's that the bugs are extremely visible and obvious. There's no excuse for things like the gadget bug going live, more so when the entire point of Drop3 was for it not to be a buggy mess. It wasn't ready, and Carbine should have held it, but they didn't, so now they have to deal with the fallout. | |} ---- I thought the entire point of drop 3 was to make sure the game wasn't a buggy mess and to keep the bugs to a minimum. Visible or not, I think I'm justified in asking a straight up question of whether bugs like this make a patch "buggy". If people want to throw the word around, I think it should be brought up. Is this patch really "buggy" just because there's a bug inhibiting zero functionality in the game. I'd RATHER the game release with that one than a systematic bug we can't see. I can deal with it... I honestly didn't even notice it when I was playing because I never look at my gadget slot for the CD. I'm especially quizzical that it would be compared unfavorably to the other drops for just that reason. If there's going to be a bug, let's make it something that is literally doing nothing to break anything anywhere. | |} ---- They can and have done in-game polls as part of the CBT's and OBT. (How would you rate the difficulty of this mission? Was it fun? Were you appropriately rewarded? Please add any additional comments in the box below). Better because I doubt many would click through and because if somebody's IG they're invested enough to actually be playing. | |} ---- ---- "Random cosmetic issues"? *sigh* This is where the whiteknighting goes from useful to destructive, where the defense becomes so overzealous that anybody who prefers reality feels obliged to start pointing out flaws just to keep things from becoming completely dissociated from reality. Do you really want to sit down with the list of known and reported issues and start quibbling about whether the list of about 3 dozen known issues--not to mention the ones that haven't made their way onto that list, at least a few of which are major PITAs for anyone who uses chat or the auction house--are "cosmetic" or not? Some of these issues have already been fixed and some have workarounds. I have every confidence that the devs are working hard to fix them, and that a few weeks from now most--if not all--will be gone. But that doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of bugs, spread pervasively throughout the game, that weren't there last week. It doesn't change that some of them are VERY easy to spot and clearly went live without any appreciable QA at all. That doesn't mean that they didn't fix a lot of bugs, nor does it mean that they should do another one of those completely moronic "Stop the game development! There's bugs!" sort of realignments. They absolutely should not even consider such a thing. Ever again. But that's not the same as saying there have been no substantive problems. You're not the only person here who has played MMORPGs for a long time. I've seen lots of games have smoother updates than this--even at comparable points in their post-release lifetime, and even from similarly sized development studios. The game does not have to completely break the subpopulation of gamers it was intending to help with a drop in order to call the drop "buggy". That kind of drop is more appropriately called "the mother of all clustercupcakes". To earn the title "buggy", all a drop has to do is have so many bugs that you couldn't miss them unless you had blinders on. Because that's when the reaction to the drop goes from "Whoa, cool!" to "Wow, this may be cool, but it still needs a fair amount of work, doesn't it." | |} ---- ---- ... Really? Really? Have it your way, then. Whiteknights vs. Whiners, commence the battle. *gives up* | |} ---- Some of them were needed, I'm not resistant to change. I'm resistant to "balance" that destroys gameplay. WildStar's performance and optimization enhancements were pushed to drop 4 which is a huge mistake. So basically you could say your opinion is being ignored. This patch aimed WildStar in the right direction, now the critical first step is all that is needed. If you have met someone that hasn't experience bugs in Drop 3 this person would have to meet the following criteria. No mount No gadget No housing plot 1 LAS No tradeskills Not be an esper That leaves us with only players below level 14 (excluding espers). You sure to know a lot of people that fit that immensely small classification. The perception of bugs is very real as are the growing list of actual bugs. | |} ---- Which bugs, specifically, are you talking about? Because I'm directly questioning the use of "a lot of bugs". I've seen the known issues thread. I haven't just played other MMORPGs, I've read a lot of patch notes and seen a lot of bugs. I was there for AoC and diligently read the hotfixes for WoW. About the only game I can say has less bug issues than Wildstar during the time I've been playing has been EVE, and that's only because their drops aren't really that big and there's not a lot you can break. I was playing yesterday, and except for having to have missed the gadget not being there (for surely it must be gone, I didn't even notice), I had no problems in my housing plots, my UI is great, my framerate in Thayd has increased even in high population areas, I am taking people at their word that there are an astronomical amount of bugs in the game that I don't see. But now? When we're saying, "Well, look, there aren't a lot of bugs, but you can really see some of these!" I can't take it as seriously. It's an admission that it has absolutely nothing to do with Carbine; they could have almost no bugs, and hotfix them all out, they'll be buggy if people see one. I remember when "buggy" meant something besides, "I saw a bug." If this was buggy, everything in MMORPGs is buggy. | |} ---- ---- The thing that bothers me is stuff like the gadget bugs were in the drop 3 PTR the first time it was up like 3/4 months ago It was still on PTR the second time a couple weeks ago It was reported in PTR forums both times and still made it to live How do they not catch something that basic and right in your face immediately? how do they not fix it over all that time? how do they not see the forum posts and bug reports? It just doesn't make sense. I can't really tell what's different between live and the 3 months ago drop 3 PTR, If anything it actually seems worse off | |} ---- Quite the opposite you think it's some magical coincidence the playerbase is on a constant decline and hasn't stabilized? You can make all the lovey dove threads you want it doesn't change the fact the state of the game is horrible | |} ---- ^ This. You win sir/madam. | |} ---- ---- The process didn't work. Point blank, period. You remember how they were delaying releases, so they could test their product, and identify bugs to reduce the number being released? They've had multiple patches this week to address these bugs, which is great and all. But you can't argue with the fact that they are once again taking them down on Friday to address even more issues. Also, one must really question their Q&A team. I have every reason to beleive that this team was the majority of the 40 people let go during recent reductions? The reasoning? Gadgets / LAS switches. All it took, upon log in, was about 10 seconds to realize my gadget was missing. About 10 seconds later, I had switched LASs, and right away it was apparent that the LAS was locked, abilities could not switch, and gadgets were bugged. Not bad Q&A. Not bad. Maybe next time we'll make the 15 second mark? | |} ---- Your LAS isn't bugged. There are several causes for this problem. One known cause is that Candy bars is broken now and won't activate an LAS swap. Switching LASes isn't inherently broken, but the button to do so bugs out sometimes. The following addons still allow you to swap LASes, even if your default button bugs out: Vince Builds, SassyBuilds. I'm sure there are others that perform the same function. You can fix your gadget display by unequipping your gadget, switching LAS, re-equip your gadget, switch LAS back. You have to do this every time you log in, but it's a workaround. You can also use AuraMastery to display your gadget cooldown instead assuming you use that addon. The fading chat log also has had a community fix. Download the ChatLogFadeFix addon. I would bet my left nut that the entire UI is written by one or two people tops. They have a lot of UI addons to maintain while also updating every single one to the new API, and I doubt a whole lot of QA time is taken to test out every possible event that may or may not cause a UI glitch (as evidenced by the fact that you cannot manually reproduce the LAS swap button bug). Typical shit-kicker answer: Oh noes! Some UI elements broke because the UI API got a version bump! The entire game is buggy and unplayable! | |} ---- Is the state of the game Michigan? | |} ---- ---- The only place where that statement is true is the ChatLogFadeFix. The LAS build addons existed before the drop, and continued to work after the drop so there was no additional work necessary. A workaround for the gadget display bug also isn't a fix. That being said, of course more people working on a problem get things done faster. UI isn't a high priority system compared to things that actually prevent the game from actually operating correctly. Putting more people on UI QA to locate bugs isn't going to get the bugs fixed any faster without more LUA programmers to trace and fix the bugs in the code. | |} ---- The only gamebreaking bug, as in it literally was breaking the game and crashing the servers, was because of bad character data and could not have been caught on the PTR or by QA. Yes, there are new bugs that are annoying in various aspects, but to label anything else as gamebreaking is pointless hyperbole. This post was linked to recently by a dev, so I assume that it remains relevant despite being from back in January: https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/16069-carbine-processes-patch-types/ In it Cougar explains Carbine's triage process. Its been mentioned in at least one place that the gadget issue was triaged to low severity since it was only a display problem, and that this was probably a mistake because a lot of players take issue with display problems. | |} ---- Seriously. There could be 1000 bugs nobody can see but actually cause memory leaks, lower FPS than you should be getting, or cause you to get skipped in a queue (making you wait around longer than intended), but the one bloody display bug that literally affects nothing except your ability to see a number on your screen becomes a cause for rioting in the streets. Pick your battles, and be glad that these low priority bugs can be fixed on the community side on the table so you don't actually have to wait around for an official patch. | |} ---- ---- ---- WoW, Swtor, GW2, name any MMO. They've all had cash exploits at one point or another. | |} ---- On a totally unrelated note, I would note that sending out the drop with gardens shut down may--upon careful and considered reflection--have been a sign that there was more than a "random cosmetic issue" in need of addressing. | |} ---- I heard rumors there was a bug that effected the economy that sounds fairly game breaking. | |} ---- Servers are down now because of it lols. | |} ---- Back up. The maintenance down-time was to change gardening to just disable it for the time being. I"ll admit its just a band-aid but at least something has been done and carbine seems to be improving. | |} ---- Woot! They are learning :D | |} ---- I don't know the exact details of the exploit, but if its the one I have seen mentioned in places then it has been around long before Drop 3. And even then, it depends on your definition of game breaking, and I tend to a more literal one. | |} ---- ----